Maera, 45 Priest - Cheerleader Application [Accepted]

[Frostscythe]

That's a fair enough selection of points Andro and I was well aware that this was more than likely to be the response anyhow. The following:

Andromel wrote:

My opinion would be level up, get gear/experience then re apply and as people like you it shouldnt be hard to get a trial and tbh in those circumstances id vouch for you once you hit 80 and had the gear etc.

This is what I was planning to do in the first place - the reason I applied to EoL was so that I can at least socialise with my friends in here whilst I play and even get to know new ones rather than remain guildless for the duration of levelling.

[Ellee!]

it does strike me as a little odd there is no "social" spots in the guild i originally thought this was what a cheerleader was but i am obviously mistaken.

Im sure having social spots for some people may ignite their passion for the game again when around the people they played with for so long, most guilds ive been in have social spots for exmembers and no lvl cap on it, seems strange that a casual raiding guild would be so strict with the lvl cap on a essentially meaningless (raiding wise) rank like cheerleader, its not like he gets access to anything important or privaldges normal members dont get. Anyways im sure there are good reasons for all this just i cant see them

[Chillchaos]

I have been wondering if I should've been posting what Andro just did...
/phail from my side, since the man is correct;
I remember vividly we've declined such applications with the clear reason "You cannot apply for the Cheerleader rank."
I took the libarty of looking it up, for everyone's clarification.

Saraesa / Liesje wrote:

Cheerleader Members that have earned their spot, but are not raiding anymore for any number of personal reasons. These members are still allowed to raid ocasionally when there is a spot for them. Their primary role however is to lead the cheer! As such they are an important part of the social fabric of the guild. Signing up is optional, getting a raidspot is not guaranteed, Partial Roll Rights. Attain rank: If you take a long-term break from raiding, but still want to be a part of our community. The officers and GM will review if someone deserves this rank. Lose rank: If you want to get back to regular raiding you can apply for a demotion back to member. Long-term inactivity on forums and/or in game will lead to a guildkick though, this rank is not here to keep your spot in the guild save, but for you to contribute in other ways when raiding/signing is not an option for you.

I like having Frosty around as much as the next, or probably even more -- you all know how I valued a tank @ Vezax!
But in my bluntness I keep thinking that a Cheerleader spot was denied on Frosty back then, and agreeing on it now, on his alt/new main, seems strange, and moreover, against the guildrules.

However, Ellee does raise a good point, and seeing it's Frosty here; perhaps worth thinking over, if I may be so free.
To be clear Frosty; this isn't any personal attack towards you.

Thing is, we're outta ranks already...

[Feronius]

[Vieane]

This is stupid. Its not like theres a frigging cap on how many people you can have in a guild is it? Pretty much all frosty is asking to see is bloody gchat but you're (As people are so fond of doing) making a biiig deal over something silly. *shrug*

[Andromel]

Im guessing that your comments were aimed at me Vieane and im wondering what makes you think im making a big deal out of something silly.

Maybe things have changed beyond all recognition since i was last online but all i did was point out what i believed was the ruling regarding cheerleader rank bearing in mind ive seen people in the past denied the same thing frosty is asking for and it is stated in the rules but i guess you reckon the rules are silly also.

I wouldnt mind if id came on and attacked frost or said something that defied belief but i didnt so how the fuck do you think im making a big deal out of something.

Anyway its not down to me to accept or decline an application so ill let the officers decide and as usual ill go with their descision.

[Sötpojke]

i agree with vieane. get the silly guy in! :P

[Ellee!]

one of the main problems this guild has is the huge focus of on "rules" which are constantly bent and brought up and quoted at people to a laughable point sometimes, as becki has said, all he wants to do is see the guild chat and socialise with friends he has already made.

[Vieane]

Exactly what Ellee said. Rules are quoted only when it's appropriate or will help someone else's arguement.

I don't care, worst comes to worst we'll set up our own elitist channel.

[Saraesa / Liesje]

Ellee! wrote:

Im sure having social spots for some people may ignite their passion for the game again when around the people they played with for so long

That's indeed the idea of our cheerleader rank, however when Frosty first applied for cheerleader he'd been in the guild only about 2 months I think (maybe 3?), so the "played with for so long" didn't really apply.

EoL has no level cap on cheerleader chars. Usually the cheerleader is the char they raided with, so usually it's level 80, however we have some TBC cheerleaders around that are 70(+).

In Frosty's case one reason to accept a cheer app now, even though it was declined back then would be because he kept in touch and trolling the forums even though he was not in the guild.

Having said all this, the ultimate decision is up to the Recruitment Officer(s), they'll be weighing in the various factors and decide if he qualifies.


PS. yes, there is a cap at the amount of people in the guild. A soft cap if you please. The bigger the guild gets, the more anonymous people will be. EoL will be less and less like a family the bigger it gets. So yes, we choose our cheers with care.

PS2. I believe rules are there to make things work better. We are not a governmental institution with hundreds of people at our side to write the rules so they cover everything. They don't. Sometimes we have to "fit" the rules to an unforeseen situation. In the care of the cheerleader rules, they where made in a way to leave plenty room for the officers to make judgement calls.

[Saraesa / Liesje]

Please think before you trash the rules or officers decisions. Usually we have our reasons. Ask us for them. Don't dismiss it.

(Yes Vieane, this is aimed at you)

[Vieane]

I did think about it.

[Airaniel]

Right Hi there Frosty!

Im not going to make an official statment as it is right now. Firstly I want the main recruiter and I to have a little what about this matter.

I can say that personally I liked having you around and I was sad to see you leave the game back when you did, especially because you hadn't been in the guild for very long and was therefor not entitled to get the cheerleader rank.
Now sure rules are there to be bend, but bending the rules TOOOOOOO much is not going to do us any good.

I can tell you that a part of me wants to give you cheerleader rank, especially if it means that you will start raiding with us again in the future. But another part of me wants us to maintain our rules (because rules are there for a reason).

This said I wish you good luck with your application and I or Gem will return to you with a decision.

Norrinja/Miriel.

[Saraesa / Liesje]

Frosty, one more question, how long have you been back in WoW this time and how do we know you'll not wow-quit again in 2-3 months?
You have been kinda in and out of wow lately....

Normally this would be a weird question to ask in a cheer app, since cheers are supposed to be kinda afk, that's what's being cheer is about... But in your case this app seems to be more like a step-up to an initiate spot when you get 80, so I think it is relevant.

[Frostscythe]

Saraesa / Liesje wrote:

Frosty, one more question, how long have you been back in WoW this time and how do we know you'll not wow-quit again in 2-3 months? You have been kinda in and out of wow lately.... Normally this would be a weird question to ask in a cheer app, since cheers are supposed to be kinda afk, that's what's being cheer is about... But in your case this app seems to be more like a step-up to an initiate spot when you get 80, so I think it is relevant.

I've been back for about two weeks now.

As for the second part: I did say in my application that I would reapply for an initiate spot not just expect an automatic 'upgrade' when the time comes, thus meaning that I would not be obliged to become an initiate if my circumstances change in the future as obviously, there are no guarantees.
It is my intention however, to reapply for an active membership when I do get to the point where I am able to raid (casually) again, so I guess you'll just have to take the chance that I'll be around for longer.

As for Norri's statement:

Miriel/Norrinja wrote:

I can tell you that a part of me wants to give you cheerleader rank, especially if it means that you will start raiding with us again in the future. But another part of me wants us to maintain our rules (because rules are there for a reason).

I'm well aware that the circumstances of my application require a bending of the rules and whilst it would be nice, I am willing to accept the possibility of being declined membership because as you say, Rules are Rules.

If you don't want to take the chance that I'll be leaving WoW again in 2-3 months, and to be honest I wouldn't blame you if you did, then deny the application and I'll reapply as the time fits, however (and this may sound a bit blackmail-y), Norri did touch on the fact that I would be more likely to want to raid in those 2-3 months if I was granted a spot and I would have to agree.